We dove into quite the discussion today regarding how God could be omniscient and omnipotent yet allow man to make so many bad decisions. I definitely feel like we could discuss it more in depth and maybe pull some textual evidence to support our ideas.
I want to begin the discussion with the concept of the fall of Adam and Eve into original sin in Genesis 2 through 3. There are harsh words associated with how God introduces Adam and Eve into their new life, which leads me to question whether the two new humans had any choice at all upon their creation. God "took the man and put him in the garden of Eden...God commanded the man..." (Gen 2:15). It appears he has complete control of them, and he even tells them what they can and can not eat in the garden. So were Adam and Eve created without the knowledge of good and evil? Could they even make decisions for themselves? Why did God let them eat the forbidden apple? After Adam and Eve sin and eat the forbidden fruit, they suddenly have the awareness of good and evil. I want to point out Gen 3:22 where God says "See, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever".
Comment with any of your thoughts!
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ReplyDeleteCreation is at the subject of the creator's hands. For example, a painting (a creation) did not give consent to the painter (creator) to be painted. The painting came to existence because the painter allowed it. How can man have a choice upon his creation when he has not yet been created? Man must be created first to even have a choice.
DeleteI think that God does have control over most aspects of Adam and Eve's lives. I think he controlled what they originally knew and where they were put on the earth, but after that I think he decided to let them live as they pleased. Maybe he thought that by setting them up without the knowledge of good and evil and in the Garden of Eden he didn't need to control their every action after that. It's possible he assumed that they could and would do no wrong in that environment. It's likely that if it had not been for the serpent, an outside source that prompted Eve to try the forbidden fruit, she would have never done so because she and Adam did not appear to be curious about it. Adam and Eve were told not to eat the fruit so they had no desire to, but when Eve is told to eat the fruit by the serpent she does. I think that Adam and Eve were programmed to obey the commands given by God and that when Eve was told to eat the fruit by the serpent, she didn't know the difference between a command from God and a command from him.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, Adam and Eve always had the ability inside them to tell good from evil, but it was not triggered until they did something forbidden aka eat the apple. Once they did that they felt something akin to guilty and started to feel/realize their guilt for other wrongs they had done such as being naked and when they tried to hide that from God. ~Anu
ReplyDeleteI used to think the concept of free will came into existence the moment Eve ate from the Tree of Life, but then again, I wondered how she had the ability to eat the apple even when God warned both Adam and Eve against doing so. I think they both do inherit this ability to act freely, but only gain the knowledge to decipher good from evil when they eat the apple and "open" their eyes. That's the moment they realize their nakedness and suddenly feel shame, something they didn't feel prior to consuming the apple. Thus, rather than God letting them eat from the Tree of Life, I think it's more like God giving commands and expecting them to follow them, but not having complete control over their actions. It's hard to bring this point up without mentioning temptation and the evil.
ReplyDeleteUpon their creation, Adam and Eve were not given the knowledge of good and evil by God. They had free will, which God gave them, and this caused them to sin against God. Their want and desire to understand the knowledge of good and evil led to their downfall. God gave them free will, knowing that it was a possibility that the fruit could be eaten, however I don't believe He knew it was going to be.
ReplyDeleteI found it confusing as well... it seems as though in the Bible, God says that he knows all, he creates all, and he is in all. The Bible is his written rule, the guidelines his people must follow in order to be prosperous in his world. To me it is confusing, because this means that God will give good fortune to those loyal to him - that he will positively affect their lives. How is it then that everyone can have free will, and that everyone is left to make wrong decisions, or to be put in bad situations. If God cannot control and change the future and the lives of his people, then what is the reasoning behind following The Bible's words loyally? Not all that he commands is kind, just, and simple. How is he really showing that following his word is the best decision?
ReplyDeleteTo respond to the question whether or not Adam and Eve had free will, I believe that they did. Since God presented Adam with a choice, “You may freely eat of every tree of the garden; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat” (Genesis 2:16), Adam can either follow God’s orders, or choose to eat from the tree of knowledge and sinned. Therefore, one can say that Adam and Eve did possess free will to make this particular choice. Adam and Eve were not forced by God to sin, as they did it upon their free will. So what does this say about Adam and Eve’s knowledge between good and evil? If God issued a command to Adam, he acknowledges the fact that Adam can distinguish between the right (by obeying God’s orders) and the wrong (by disobeying him). It would not make sense for God to instruct Adam had Adam lacked this mental ability. Hence, this would imply that both Adam and Even had some knowledge of good and evil and were able to act upon their free will.
ReplyDelete- Peem T.
Going through the comments I was reminded of Satre's existentialist ideal that existence precedes essence. It is the idea that our identities, what defines us as a person, is not pre-determined before our birth by fate or a higher power. And that the decisions we make, the actions we take, and the experiences we go through build up to develop who we are. As Satre put it " man first of all exists, encounters himself, surges up in the world, and defines himself afterwards." I also feel like this permeated in Genesis; God did create Adam and Eve, however their decisions were what determined the existence they led.
ReplyDeleteI still find the question of God's omnipotency very interesting- if He is omnipotent, and can make anything happen, is Adam's and Eve's free will actually free will? In addition, why does He allow the snake to entice Eve to eat from the tree? If He truly gave them free will but did not want them to eat the forbidden fruit or understand good vs. bad, he would not have placed the tree of knowledge on Earth in the first place. It could be that God is all-knowing rather than omnipotent, but then again, He did not know that Adam and Eve had eaten the forbidden fruit until he realizes that they have found humility and shame. I think that rather than God being omnipotent or all-knowing, it is more of a matter of creator vs. creation, as Jessica mentioned earlier. Once God has created, he cannot undo; after he created man and woman, they became beings with free will. Despite this lack of control over his creations, he has unlimited power to create. Therefore, he can foresee, or guarantee, things such as the birth of Isaac.
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