Tuesday, September 30, 2014
Athenian secularity
Today in class we were discussing the position the Gods maintained in the lives of the Greeks as well as the position the Greeks maintained in the perspective of the Gods. The Athenians were known for developing a secular school of thought, otherwise known as ancient Greek philosophy. Since this had its foundation in Athens, we can only assume that Thucydides is somewhat part of its foundation. Thucydides' telling of the Peloponnesian War is strictly historical because he wants to tell what exactly happened; however, do you think that the events that occurred between the two states occurred because of their diverging outlook on life with regards to belief? For example, the Athenians faced a disastrous plague, but looked at it only as a event of life rather than something imposed by an angry God(s).
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
I feel like the result of the war did not have anything to do with budding religious beliefs, but rather economic standpoints and differences. The Athenians actually did look at the plague as a sign that the gods favored Sparta, but Thucydides viewed it as an event of life (or at least portrayed it as one for the sake of his 'accurate' account). I feel like both did have different religion viewpoints, but those were not causes and did not engender the war.
ReplyDeleteI definitely agree that the war had nothing to do with each city-state's belief in deities. As we can see from their war-time speeches, their main concern was financial and physical power, as well as honor and expansion of their 'empires'. I think that the gods were not questioned, the people knew they existed, and accepted their decisions. Unlike the bible, the Greeks found hope, power, expansion, and community through concrete decisions and actions - the gods were there to intervene when they wanted, but not to go to when in need. This is why the war couldn't have stemmed from differences in belief, because that wasn't a concern at the time - the concern was in the rapid expansion and growth of Athenian power.
ReplyDeleteTo build on to Torrey's point, I also believe that the Greeks have used the gods as 'stepping stones' for their consolidation to power. While the Israelites were governed by the will of God, the Greeks governed themselves. It seems pointless for the Greeks to consult the oracle or the gods when they have already called for a vote amongst the allied representatives whether they should go to war. Within the speeches, we can also see how the gods are used as rhetorical devices to call the public to war: "God has ordained it and promised to support us" (Book I, 123).
ReplyDeleteTension built up because of Athenian's growing power. It seems for one group to have power, another must have less. There is always a "winner" and a "loser." Do you think it is possible to have a situation in which the Spartans and Athens can coexist and avert war?
ReplyDeleteAlong with the first responses, I don't think that the war was started due to budding differences in belief. Thucydides tried to write this account of the war as impartial and as factually correct as possible, eliminating many religious ideas simply because they, according to Thucydides, may not have been accurate. However, if the war was caused by differences in belief and religion, then in order to be completely historically accurate about the war and the beginning of the war, he would have had to include some aspects of religion in his account.
ReplyDeleteAmy Shih