Thursday, December 4, 2014
What is Free Will in City of God
Last class, Professor Vaught identified that Saint Augustine implies that sinners do not have free will. In the texts assigned for today's class, I noticed that the discussion of fate generally referred to everyone. The concepts of one's destiny or fate are further believed to be predetermined by God and reached by the action of man himself. This reminds me of the discussion on suicide. If a man chooses to end his righteous life by his own hand, he is will thus become a sinner. However, his free will was shown in his behavior until his death that God is said to have already known. Does this necessarily mean that virtuous people do not have free will if they are to reach one certain end? Or do you think that God permits all to have free will in order to fulfill their predetermined destinies?
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I think God created every human with free will, so that they would have the choice to follow Him or not, like we discussed last class. Book XIII describes the condition of humans to be "that if they continue in perfect obedience they will be granted an eternity of bliss, whereas if disobedient they will be justly condemned to the punishment of death" (XIII.1). In this sense, God lets humans choose their fate. While God may be omnipotent, He also allows humans to have free will.
ReplyDeleteIt doesn't make sense to me that God would permit every person to have a free will only to fulfill a predetermined destiny. If someone has a free will, then it seems like his choices would allow his destiny to be ever-changing. It seems a little sadistic that God would have a predetermined destiny for every person, and then give choices to people to create an illusion of free will.
ReplyDeleteI think we need to note that God didn't give every person free will only to fulfill a predetermined destiny. He gave free will to every person so they could choose which route their life would take–yes, God is able to see all the infinitely possible routes that a persons life could follow based off of which decisions they choose to make, but He chooses not to predetermine those choices for us. It isn't an illusion of free will, it is free will–just God can see the possibilities of both what we choose to do, and what we dont choose to do, and how that affects us.
ReplyDeleteIn so far as St. Augustine has elaborated in the text, free will seems to be a representation of "god's test" applied to all human beings. There are no actual limitations to what we can do, but outside influences do influence what we are "supposed" to do. Biblical teachings, conformity and pressure tends to keep us away from the sinful and towards the faithful. Therefore, free will, overtime, becomes much more narrow in scope than the "infinite options" that a man is given initially.
ReplyDeleteSt. Augustine's explains that God is aware of the possibilities of a man's future. We as a class discussed how there is always a 'right' choice and that the body can deceive the soul. Therefore, in the end, it is possible to lose all free will by living a life that do not make the 'right' choices and pass God's 'tests'. I also noticed how it connects to the earlier discussion with that the good will suffer on alongside the wicked. This aspect of God's intervention supports the concept of free will. By not punishing the obvious sinners, God does not show favor towards those who are virtuous automatically because the "the virtue and vice are different" for those who suffer. (Bk.I, Ch.8) Thus, the soul inherently knows why the suffering is endured. St. Augustine describes God as "patient" with the wicked while using his severity to "correct" the wicked with punishment. This somehow contradicts the ends that the two types of individuals will find in the 'everlasting' life. Is it perceivable that St. Augustine is implying that God's help is available to the wicked for correction? I am not sure if I can ask another question in a comment, but I figured why not.
ReplyDeleteWhile free will with god as an anchor is not the same as destiny, judgement in itself seems to be a sort of destiny. One does not have a destiny in life, but after death the destiny of being judged is pre-determined. The free will one practices is anchored by god, but one's actions affect the final judgement and determines destiny in the afterlife.
ReplyDeleteI don't think that God has control over people's fate, rather it's just that he has omniscience and knows the fate of the people. As for sinners not having free will, this is because free will is defined as the ability to direct your will towards God, or good, or what's right. And since we thought of evil as the lack of God (since God can't have created anything that's evil or not good), then it's understandable that the lack of God causes less free-will on the part of the humans.
ReplyDeleteI find the concept of free will very interesting. As it is linked to humility, the free will of human beings is given due to God's omnipotence and authority. In this sense, humans must have free will in order to be able to make certain decisions. There is no sin without free will.They are given the choice of showing good. God gives a "test" as he did for Jesus. As the result of reasoning on this concept, we can define concupiscence.
ReplyDeleteFor your question Victoria, I think that you’re right and St. Augustine is probably implying that God's help is available to the wicked for correction.
This idea of free will is a difficult concept to understand. But in regards to your question Robert I personally think that god permits everyone to have free will. It doesn't matter who you are, every individuals destiny or path in life is dictated upon them, whether good or bad. If someone lives their life according to sin or breaking the rules and regulations that god bas set upon them then they have that justification, but there will be consequences. The idea of sin can constrict ones ultimate decision to do something, but regardless that person is still able to break that rule. In other words, we have the freedom to do whatever we want and there is nothing that can stop us only the fear that is brought upon within ourselves for breaking the rules.
ReplyDeleteI think that the modern definition and that of St. Augustine of free will are very different-- rather than thinking of free will as humans having preference of one thing over another, we talked about how free will referred to the orientation of the choices to God. Therefore, free choice is when one decides to orient themselves and their decisions to good and God. This, if someone sins, then it isn't out of free will because the sin isn't because of God.
ReplyDeleteIt is not possible to say that people have free will if God has predetermined destinies for everyone already planned ahead. Having free will means having the power to determine your own future. perhaps when people say that God has already planned our fates, they mean death, for it is the one outcome that we all eventually succumb to, in our lives we have the power to make our own decisions, but the end is unavoidable and undeniable, and that is death.
ReplyDelete